Remarkable transformations

Some rather bizarre developments here in The Netherlands. Monday there was an extensive article (PDF, dutch) about me in De Telegraaf. De Telegraaf is the newspaper with the largest circulation and it leans to the right politically. In it, they describe all the developments with the court order to Twitter.

More interestingly, the article features me as “Julian Assange’s adjudant” as well as “a left-wing terror activist” with “close ties to the Chaos Computer Club who in turn had ties with RAF terrorists”. Also, the article claims that “their research shows that US intelligence has been told by a Dutch source that I was offering close to a million euros to various web hosting companies on behalf of Wikileaks.”

The article leans quite extensively on “research” done by “intelligence expert” Peter Siebelt. Siebelt wrote a book in 2005 called “The Fourth World War”, a crackpot theory of seamless continuity from Marxism to radical Islamism in which everyone left of center in this country is part of a large and well-coordinated conspiracy to introduce sharia law and make the Netherlands a caliphate. (Don’t ask me what happened to the third world war.)

Now: I did not arrange web-hosting for Wikileaks. Not now, not back in the time I was helping out. Not that I see anything terribly wrong with doing so, but I just didn’t. And I most certainly didn’t do it with “close to million euros” in my pocket. I mean: think about it…  A million euros worth of web-hosting. I’m not sure what kind of hosting services package to imagine at 1M euro. A million euros probably gets you a sizable stake in many web hosting companies, if it doesn’t buy them outright.

Remarkable transformations happen. You go to bed having helped release a video of soldiers routinely killing people trying to save the wounded, and you wake up the next day a nefarious left-wing terror activist-adjudant secretly spending millions on web hosting. I wonder what I’ll be tomorrow.

42 thoughts on “Remarkable transformations”

  1. Hero Brinkman: Nou, dat wat meneer Gonggrijp zegt over meneer Siebelt dat is compleet uit de lucht gegrepen. Die meneer is een van de beste misdaadjournalisten en onderzoeksjournalisten die Nederland heeft… dus wat dat betreft – ja, boeiend, maar ook iemand die buitengewoon gedocumenteerd is, waar zelfs allerlei diensten naar toe komen om informatie uit te halen, dus wat u nu zegt is gewoon compleet flauwekul.

    Altijd fijn als iemand je punt even onderstreept.

  2. The entire wikileaks drama since those cables were first published is bizarre to me. Especially the amount of misinformation spread about Wikileaks, Assange and now Rop, but also the agressive attitude of many US politicians and political pundits (Fox).

    Calling for assassination of Assange, calling Wikileaks cyberterrorists. Of course, no main stream media even dares to question the rape allegations against Assange. Suspicious timing? Yes. Convenient? Yes. Have the US/CIA done stuff like this before? Yes…

    I’m wondering how far these fundamentalists are ready to go. This has nothing todo with any national security anymore, this is a pure power struggle. Watch your back.

  3. Rop, lets put this into perspective.
    Given the 2011 US military budget
    and this in comparison to world total
    considering how much its costing the US to do what they are doing in this wikileaks matter…
    Certainly the near a million euros you had is wrong. It’d cost, by US military pricing, at least that for a single web page, much less hosting.

    As to your age, ok so your a child prodigy…. in comparison to US military intelligence that somehow lost track of some 2.3 trillion US dollars (I wonder if they ever found it?).

    But certainly the right wing flapping the opposite direction of the left wing has got to be wrong as I have never seen an eagle fly that way.

    The sad part. I’m a tax paying American. I don’t know WTF this government is, but its not American as defined by the Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution. Maybe its a some sort of mental handicap institution, as events seem to indicate.
    I should get tax credit for my forced donation.

  4. especially the part about the CCC as a “terrorists group” with “ties to RAF” is beautiful.

    — but back to something real.

    the CCC helped really a lot when the case with the “blue t-shirt” happened in berlin on september 12th 2009, without their help the video wouldn’t have been able to spread that efficiently.

    there is a conference video taken on the 26th CCC congress clickable via for example, presenting results of detailed examinations (of several video material, including police cam pictures). obviously: a bunch of dangerous terroristic minds…

    anyway, there are rising problems in germany too as to behaviour of the police at demonstrations, for example. an ai campaign in germany is calling for personal identification of police staff, and consequences of insufficient education (as to human rights, for example) can also be regularly observed, so peopel are demanding improvements on the training level, too. this gets indeed really alarming when you abserve activities far beyond the edge to pure sadism and violence out of border on events like eg mass blockades against neonazis (of which ones, btw, the next one is expected on feb 19th, after smaller demonstrations expected on 13th – this will happen in dresden).

    in order to give critical police staff the possibility to publish thisngs observed in this structure, processes they dont comply with, platforms like wikileaks can be helpful.

    unfortunately, currently it looks as if a book run competition (among a set of other reasons) might cause no access to both platforms that sooon (wikileaks not accepting, openleaks probably simply forgot the date when saying first week in january, so maybe first week of 2012) – anyway it seems a 3rd platform is needed. something a bit more similar to what wikileaks looked like at the beginning, something open.

    there are simply reasons to doubt in the argumentation of the wl spokesperson as to the need of exclusivity. you maybe heard about march, the presserat in germany will have to deal with the wikileaks case then. not long ago i heard the spokesperson saying that platforms like wl can help to create a way out of the “black market” of information. well exclusivity observed right now is hardly really much brighter than dark, dark grey as a market colour.

    let’s see. a 3rd platform would be great, i think.

    if i go to the press shop and ask myself if to spend some money for the work of spiegel, i don’t do it because this or that cable release is “exclusively” reported there, i do it because i choose to take a look at what they’ve done with it (in contrary of the work of another paper whose results would probably not interest me that much). exclusivity is a myth. and leaving the net base in order to hit the print sky for a platform originally docked so much to the web is simply a process hard to understand when you observe the development.

    wl turned to something else since it created its exclusivity credo. that’s fine as long as there are enough alternatives for a whistleblower who may have the right to decide which publication way he/she prefers. make it public, available for the people (not like ages ago when this spiegel uncle is ready with reading…) – so, for the people as well as indeed interested journalists, being able to start on a topic immediately. let their results compete, on a fair level. a whistleblower may have the right to decide to value wikileaks in its current stage as not following what he understands under “freedom of information”.

    he/she then should have the right to choose which platform to take, there are more needed, at least a third open one soon. hope this happens.

    re the assange case (mentioned by the first comment above) – sure, that’s without doubt. there is simply no case and sure, a walk to the police can easily be used by the system.

    as for the beckel person at fox, i can only say: if it’s 100 mio for a headache (this fresh complaint against assange in florida) – then when will people start to file their 300 mio complains against beckel? obviously the department of justice in america needs some help of the citizens to regognize what a crime is.

  5. When I was reading the Telegraaf article last Monday, I was wondering what sources the journalist and the ‘expert’ used. I found the conclusions drawn in that article also a bit surprising, these are all like ‘Gonggrijp knew this person, who knew that person, that was connected to another person who had connections with some people that hacked an US ministry’. Besides of it, it’s enormously prejudiced.

    URL to this article for the people who haven’t read it:

  6. The Telegraaf used to be a quality paper (long ago) but has degraded into a sensation-tabloid which sadly is what te public likes to read these days. So then you get ‘journalism’ like this. Depressing…

  7. it’s not easy to read and follow a short comment coming in telegram style, the “you” can be practically everyone everywhere in such cases. from the post publisher through the published post reader to every of the comment authors below to every site visitor and reader.

    but i’d like a try from one of the possible sides. it would look like:

    “superkalifragenstellen is not forbidden, as i have reasons still to hope. and i’d like to mention that i got my master in climbing on chimneys too long ago to be impressed by my prof.’s quotation which was actually directed to younger brains, isn’t it. let’s hope the brains dealing with the march presserat debate in germany will have their chimney master behind them, too. a tower doctorate would be even better. would be good if this debate could turn out to be an mature one.”

  8. @ all
    Imho *) Siebelt is an ass. Quite possible that the man just can’t help himself in that respect; nobody’s perfect.
    I vividly recall his Eco Nostra (2003). In that book as well, Siebelt expressed a couple of detailed opinions on several Dutch citizens m/f and how terribly dangerous they would be (“terrorists”). Among them were a few of my friends, about whom Siebelt had their facts totally, unbelievably wrong.

    In that sense Barry Obama is better warned never to rely on De Telegraaf and its wide clique of clowns….

    *) Imho = In my honest opinion, or In my humble opinion; pick your choice. Just clarifying for any US & Dutch lurkers with law school education as well as a hunter mentality. Especially since I can’t use my own PC at the time. Thank you.

  9. here it is: an un-american onlinepage (anti-state terrorism, anti-state sadism, anti-war) that supports the critizism of a sentence in the media. (just found via gugl.)

    btw i believe evr’thing but a “right wing anti-war” attitude is just one fairy tell to much.

  10. “The Telegraaf used to be a quality paper”

    LOL! Yeah, right. Not during my lifetime it hasn’t. And I’m well over fifty.

  11. Now you can see how people can, or attempt to, destroy people without any proof or knowledge about the subject. By repeating and repeating people are inclined to believe what was said or told. But the thing that scares me the most are the things we don’t know. We know that twitter is approached by the us-government but how about other companies like Google en Facebook? People reject it as small happenings, but I believe great things are happening. If people like Assange or Gongrijp are treated like this, how can we be partners with them? How can our government, or what is left of it, stand up for us if they can’t do anything about this? It is frighting me.

    You have my bless, Rop. Go for it, you are like a pioneer for me and I hope I can hold on to my principals like you do at the moment. You are like an example for me on how i want to approach things, i hope the pressure isn’t too much..

    Because the only thing left out there is our principals..

  12. Reality is never the thought about how the world should be. I only can wish you to be invincible. Be beyond the idea of world, rop, becoming. Drop the rop, be!

  13. to peter r.

    well my shortest possible comment to your good entry is: after twitter managed to fight the gag order, everyone is free to rethink how to judge paypal’s or amazon’s “we’ve been not approached…”

    without this case, this comment wouldn’t be so short, it would be more like an echo of a possible more honesly whispered answer from the paypal and amazon people, something like “see… we’re based in USA Everywhere Inc., so you may understand that we know exactly what our daddy is expecting from us at a special point, regardless if there’s a direct call or not that we could talk about publicly.”

    thus, suddenly re-interpreting their own T&C anew. after quite a time.

    but after the case, the comment is now able to be a bit shorter as visible above.

    re “how can government stand up with us…” – as long as people tolerate crime publicly (beckel missing his trial, still), as long I would not expect much move. there is a wave of complaints needed. a pip recently wanted 100 mio, this funny new complaint full of typos against the spokespip. people in the US have to help their government to recognize again what a crime is, doesn’t it seem so? 300 mio from beckel, at least. a set of such complains until finally there’s enough pressure to start a prosecution agains beckel, basta.

    re rop: “I wonder what I will be tomorrow…” – well probably a revolution leader or al quaida sponsor. or how about being the person who made the contact to manning possible. who… abducted manning (in a UFO) for information. or how about being osama bin ladens smaller newphew?

    right now it’s simply amazing to observe how dark blue air can be. from a “rape” case with no case to extradition inquiries and from working on a video to world revolution militant main head conspirator with ties to ties to ties to RAF who btw was sitting nearby the pilot on sept 11th before he sprang out the plane in time (oh with some patience there will be for sure a thiessen or beckel as inventive).

    btw2: great work on the video. no idea how many people in total were working on it but glad to meet a page of someohe who really (was not only speaking about it and presenting it but) who really was working on it. so in other words: glad to meet a page that made another page possible. (shock! now you’re even responsible for this! ;])

    but back to something next. isn’t it interesting that this part of the story once began with answers and replies like “people here are used to it. to war. (ie.. hardened and trimmed by their fox trainees…) – this will never be able to cause a shock within the us public…”

  14. It saddens me to the core of my soul that total freedom within the press is obstructed in the vicious ways we are seeing now. And to think that this is the work of self centric ego’s whom want to keep this whole war thing going to keep their pockets filled is sickening indeed. The solutions to make all these problems go away is so simplistic and in our faces, that it is starting to scare the living hell out of me.
    In the words of Joe Rogan and a lot of other comedians out there; people like to be bullshitted because they can’t handle the truth.
    And now I am asking myself what is more scarier; the fact that governments are out to get you or the mobs desperation to being kept force fed with the crap that they hear on the news.
    I my opinion, what I am seeing is a power struggle between the main stream media (whom btw are hell bent on keeping the force feeding going) and the open source variant of the media.
    I once read a quotation from a Philosopher who’s name I can’t recall atm; the smart man hungers for questions, not answers.
    And hereby my question: What is the fucking problem with having an open source variant of the media??
    Search and you will find.
    I am hoping that I made some form of contribution to this topic and I would like to wish Robbert the best of luck and health in his future endeavors.

  15. So, how about suing the telegraaf and demand an formal retraction ? 🙂

    After all, it’s more lies then anything else, and it’s time someone shut those idiots up. (at least for a little while)

  16. “Most ridiculous of all, Siebelt somehow doesn’t realize that I was 11 (read: eleven) at the end of the seventies.”

    Lol.. it says quite a lot about Siebelt as about Telegraaf who obviously didn’t check Siebelt’s sources.. which was quite easy thing to do, as far as your age goes. All they needed to do is to listen to their sanity, if they have it at all.

  17. Het vervelende is dat genoemd tabloid sensatieblad (roddelblad) : De Telegraaf
    (Ik reageer op “Arjan, that would be the worst thing to do Trial bij laughter is much more effective: telegraaf—column-.htm “,
    In veel hotels, restaurants, cafe’s en mondiaal verspreid wordt (‘beter half ei dan lege dop’)+internet. Dus 1 van 2: òf straal negeren (ja want zonde van de ruimte!) Ã’F deze blog van Rop G. Flink doortwitteren.
    Met FB heb ik niet veel op, maar misschien is dat ook prima.

    Voor mijn gevoel is De Telegraaf een opruier en halve terroristenkrant (links of rechts?) Die loopt te kwijlen bij geweld, geld en seks. Ik zou er niet van opkijken als wapenlobbies in de VS zich in hun kruis gepikt voelen door o.a. die video (‘collateral murder’ die ik schokkend vond en waarvoor ik een eerlijke verklaring zou opeisen) en op de manier van call-of-duty proberen hun “handel” te “beschermen”, hun Telegraafvriendjes een por gevend..
    Dat ze dan niet geleerd hebben hoeveel de VS omlaaggleed door de wapenlobbymoord op JFK (was dat niet 1962? Ik weet als velen toen wel precies waar met wie ik was en hoe laat…) zou hen dan nog wel eens een hoop geld kunnen kosten. We hebben hier ook nog zoiets als eergevoel en hoeven niet te accepteren dat dat verkwanseld wordt voor een paar flutdollars.
    Ik zou er daarnaast niet over piekeren om zoiets als een boycot van USA-produkten te doen, tenzij men daar het eigen 1st amendment verraden, door te willen “wraak”nemen op J.A. , of mensen als jij Rop (hoofd omhoog , borst vooruit!)
    De VS, groot land he, andere dialoog dan hier. Ik krijg er vaak een begin zonder end of andersom te zien. Als hiermee eens iets gezonds veranderde , klaart er mogelijk heel wat op.
    Ik denk dat de heksenjacht op Wikileaks juist een nadeel voor de USA gaat worden als ze geen afstand nemen .

  18. When a writer/speaker states questionable “facts” or even just unsubstantiated claims – check the substance of links or be wary when none are provided – the readers/ listeners *can* ignore what was read or heard, leaving those words nothing more than scratchings on paper, pixels on a computer screen or sounds in the ether.

    An orderly society is one in which each member does not tolerate the speakers/writers of words that s/he finds not promoting of hir own best interest when viewed widely and long-range. The appropriate action for such an individual is to withdraw all voluntary association – negative Social Preferencing. Shun them! Do not honor them with your time (attention) or money – do not invite them to lecture/speak, do not attend such events, do not buy their books (or the magazines/newspapers in which they are published). And strongly recommend that others do likewise. Ostracize these individuals! But do not fall for the claims that the talker/writer must be “tolerated”, meaning “accepted”.

    Each individual is personally responsible for hir choices and the actions s/he takes. There is no common brain, no common body. The talker/writer does only that – talk/write, with whatever words s/he uses; others are capable of ignoring and are at liberty to ignore them. (There is no actual or threatened use of physical force upon them.) But listeners/readers need not *tolerate* that talker/writer- negative Social Preferencing is open to all and very highly encouraged. Be a reasoned discriminating person, don’t let yourself be lead into thinking and/or acting as though a domesticated non-human animal. Social Preferencing: The Ultimate Effector of Social Order

  19. Speaking of remarkable transformations, how about emphasising below quote for contemporary as well as future generations.

    “I do think as banker I have the right to stand up if something is wrong,” he said.

    “I am against the system. I know how the system works and I know the day to day business. From that point of view, I wanted to let society know what I know. It is damaging our society.” quoting former Swiss banker Rudolf Elmer in London this morning.

    Considering the state this planet is in nowadays and our dim hopes for the future, Elmer seems the sort of man, with heaps of inside knowledge, who deserves a medal. Not prosecution. Ditto Wikileaks and all its helpers.

    It feels as if each and every ordinary, innocent citizen, children included, is rapidly becoming ever more a mere slave to the ruthless capitalist system. Compromised, corrupted to the bone even from an early age on. But if we would really join hands, a thorough transformation is imminent as we should all try and halt this crime against humanity.

  20. wait, fresh update re. “radical CCC rumour story”. the story is now being built in mass media (TV), and now plz guess which way through: via a film about wikileaks.

    english off text in a film:
    “The politically engaged Chaos Computer Club …”
    german “translation”:
    “Der radikale Chaos Computer Club …”

    more about the extremely free erm ‘localization’ in SPIEGEL:,1518,740563,00.html

  21. Gek genoeg heeft nog niemand de vraag gesteld: Wat is het verschil tussen een fatwa (waar normaliter de hele wereld over valt) en de roep van de ‘bijna vice-president’ en enkele congress-leden om de standrechtelijke executie van Rop?

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